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Orange Ales – Spring TX

Julius IPA Clone Recipe

It took a whole year to put this recipe together. Tons of wasted hops (not really wasted because we drank some awesome beer along the way) went into making this my mostly final work-in-progress clone recipe for the ever popular Julius IPA from Treehouse Brewing. Check back for updates to the recipe every few months.

I started with the color and grain, then worked on the hop combinations, and finally had to nail down the yeast esters. I know what you’re thinking…a Bavarian yeast? Dude you’re crazy. Well that’s the beauty of homebrewing – I feel like this is the closest representation of Julius that I’ve ever seen. After a year of not drinking any Treehouse beers, and sampling hazy IPAs and IIPAs from all over the country, I finally got a porch bomb full of Treehouse. When I opened the Julius and took a sip, the flavors hit me like a ton of bricks. “This is a freakin hefe!” I thought to myself.

VITALS

  • ABV – 6.2%
  • IBU – ? (around 70 perceived maybe)
  • SRM – 5.9
  • Simplified pitching: 92% S04, 5% T58, 3% WB06

WATER

  • Sulfates – 150PPM

  • Chloride – 100PPM

  • Calcium – 20PPM

  • Magnesium – 20PPM

  • Estimated Mash pH – 5.2

GRAIN

  • Golden Promise

  • 2 Row 

  • Aromatic

  • Dextrose

  • Dextrine

HOPS

  • Warrior

  • Apollo

  • Citra

YEAST

  • WB-06

  • S04

  • T58

Tasting Notes

Aroma – Similar to Julius, tropical fruits with bready malts carry this beer over the top.

Taste – follows the nose with loads of citrus up front. Easily drinking with solid hop coating through the back of the tongue.

Mouthfeel is soft and full typical of northeastern IPAs.

Yeasty Notes

**Updates to yeast and fermentation schedule**

Thanks to HomebrewTalk forum user Isomerization running some pretty awesome DNA tests on yeasts and dregs from Treehouse cans, we have a pretty solid idea of what different yeasts are in each of the Treehouse core offerings. The trick now is ratios and esters. I chose to do this:
Day 1 – S04/T58/WB06:92%/5%/3% – pitch all day 1 at regular pitching temp 72º
Day 2 – reduce temperature to 64º
Day 8 – raise temp to 70* and dry hop
Day 10 – cold crash for 2 days and keg or bottle

To be sure I wasn’t crazy thinking I tasted a hefeweizen yeast…I went ahead and stepped some yeast up from cans of Treehouse’s ‘house’ IPAs. The beer you see pictured in the glass next to the yeast is totally unhopped and unbittered. It’s a simple 100% Pilsner malt beer with the Treehouse yeast. I’d say it’s fruitier than most NEIPAs that I’ve tried that are chewy yeast bombs.
Leave your thoughts in the comments. I’m curious to know what everyone else thinks – if you brew this.

homebrew yeast stepped up on a stir plate
Treehouse Julius, Haze, Green, Doppleganger, SAP

Brewers Notes

So here’s where I go ahead and tell you why I did the stuff I did. I’ve spent the last year using every combination of American and English yeast available to me trying to replicate the Treehouse flavor. There is a noticeable bubblegum, with some melon, and even general fruit esters that I never believed were a result of the malt or hop combo. Yes, I do believe Treehouse gets much better hops than homebrewers have access to – but I also believe that with no oxygen ingress and careful dry hopping, we can at least get close. Disclaimer – I’m sure the malt bill isn’t exactly what Treehouse is using, but for the purposes of homebrewing and recreating something it tastes so damn close. For many of you who’ve followed this recipe’s development you know I’ve added and taken away many malts. This is what I’ve rested on as my interpretation…for now.

I’ve decided that the water chemistry plays a bigger part in the final beer than I’d ever thought. The chloride and sulfate ratios are slowly being raised as I brew more and more, but I like them where they are for now. The most recent version was as soft as a Treehouse core IPA.

I’d almost say dry hopping is the most important part of this beer (Not anymore), but it’s a combination of things. Here’s what I do know:
I like a bigger whirlpool now, but I’m WP’ing at 108* for 30 minutes instead of 180*. I also feel like the commercial version is a lot less hop forward than I ever imagined. the Treehouse brewing crew has made what I’d consider a Golden Triangle of hops, malt, and esters. The more I dig into Julius, the more I think it’s the most beautiful beer ever designed.

If you dry hop in vinyl bags you won’t get the correct hop exposure to your wort and your utilization will go to shit.
I’ve also found that even though Julius probably isn’t double dry hopped, if you want major aroma you’ll want to keg hop for a few days and then transfer to a serving keg. I don’t keg hop at all anymore. A single DH in the fermenter is plenty for this beer.
Most important thing is keep the beer away from oxygen at any expense. The first thing to go is your aroma, 2nd is hop saturation/flavor as your juicy alpha acids will oxidize and turn to bitter flavors, then it’s all downhill from there. You do not want an oxidized IPA with a pound of hops in it.

1-03-18 Updates: Simplified yeast pitching and changing 60 minute hop charge to Warrior.

Recipe Details

Batch Size Boil Time IBU SRM Est. OG Est. FG ABV
11 gal 60 min 63.1 IBUs 5.2 SRM 1.066 1.019 6.2 %

Style Details

Name Cat. OG Range FG Range IBU SRM Carb ABV
American IPA 14 B 1.056 - 1.075 1.01 - 1.018 40 - 70 6 - 15 2.2 - 2.7 5.5 - 7.5 %

Fermentables

Name Amount %
Pale Malt, 2-Row (Rahr) 11 lbs 44.9
Golden Promise (Simpsons) 9 lbs 36.73
Carafoam 2.5 lbs 10.2
Aromatic Malt (Briess) 1.5 lbs 6.12
Dextrose (Briess) 8 oz 2.04

Hops

Name Amount Time Use Form Alpha %
Warrior 1 oz 60 min Boil Pellet 15
Apollo 1 oz 20 min Boil Pellet 17
Citra 1.5 oz 15 min Boil Pellet 12
Apollo 1 oz 10 min Boil Pellet 17
Citra 6 oz 1 min Aroma Pellet 12
Apollo 3 oz 1 min Aroma Pellet 17
Citra 9 oz 4 days Dry Hop Pellet 12
Apollo 3 oz 4 days Dry Hop Pellet 17

Mash

Step Temperature Time
Mash In 156°F 60 min
Mash Out 168°F 35 min

Fermentation

Step Time Temperature
Primary 1 days 74°F
Secondary 3 days 62°F
Tertiary 4 days 32°F
Aging 4 days 45°F
Marshall Bishop

Author Marshall Bishop

More posts by Marshall Bishop

Join the discussion 178 Comments

  • BrewKaiser says:

    Thanks for sharing your recipe, Marshall. I’ve been researching a lot of Julius clone recipes and yours intrigues me the most. I prefer your use of wheat vs oats as most of the other clones use. I also think the crystal malts add the correct color and “sweetness” compared to honey malt (can really hit you if used too much) and turbinado sugar (I think would dry it out if anything). I also think use of Hefe yeast is smart.

    As for your late hop additions, you list them as 1 minute, but are these really intended as whirlpool? What IBUs, if any are extracting from these late additions. I would think sub 180* WP would extract more of the fruitiness.

    • MarshallB says:

      You’re welcome! I hope someone brews it and decides it’s as close as I feel. I changed some things based on recent brews, and a couple of things I learned over the last week. I’ve tried Honey Malt and agree that it doesn’t give that signature Treehouse flavor. I feel like you can really taste the clues if you drink Bright and SAP back to back – drinking the Bright first. Then following those with Julius, Haze, and Green, I pick up on some very unique similarities which led me to Biscuit Malt and the Hefe Yeast.
      I never use Turbinado because I normally try to add flavor through grain only, and reserve my use of sugar simply to add alcohol via dextrose.
      To answer your question – the 1 minute additions are knockout hops. I don’t whirlpool anymore unless I’m doing something like my recent 6 day Grain to Glass Session IPA (link to recipe coming soon). It seems to me like the purpose of large whirlpools is to carry hop polyphenols into fermentation. I can’t really tell a difference yet between adding a large whirlpool and just adding dry hops at the beginning of fermentation for the same desired juice effect through biotransformation during an active fermentation. I’m currently gathering data to support my theory that a whirlpool isn’t necessary. I’m also hoping that eliminating the whirlpool will allow for smaller amounts of total hop additions to get the same desired juice effect and hop BioT. As I set my total IBU target around 30 IBUs – adding a small amount at knockout seems like a decent combination of adding a little bitterness and extracting some additional fruit flavors before fermentation. I cool as quickly as possible, and am usually below 180* within about 5 minutes. So, worst case scenario I feel like this recipe adds less than 10 IBUs at flameout.

      • Colin says:

        Any chance of getting this in a 5 gallon version? I know it’s not as simple as cutting back 55% on everything listed. Cheers!

        • Hi Colin, I’ll see what I can do to put a 5 Gallon version out soon.
          I’m working on Haze and Green right now too, and will end up with 2 versions of Julius anyway. I’m going to have a simplified version that’s just a close approximation with creative liberties, and a harder version that is more accurate.
          I’ll need a couple of more brews on this recipe before I do all that though. If you put this recipe into BeerSmith, the main thing you’ll want to watch is the SRM and ABV. Another issue I’m hearing through feedback is I’m a little heavy on hops. This beer has been said (by everyone who drinks it) that it has more aroma than Treehouse beers.

          • Colin says:

            Thanks Marshall, I’m following the homebrewtalks thread as well, hoping to brew this in the coming weeks. I’m probably going to mess around with my own hop additions based on what I have, but would to nice to know grain bill + dry yeast amounts for 5 gallons. I’ll take a look at BeerSmith. Wish I had access to warrior extract, Treehouse says it adds to mouthfeel, but I’m stuck with pellets for now. Aroma is definitely something I’d like to improve on, my batches using Conan and WY1318 have left me desiring more even with closed transfers, natural carbonation, and little to no blowoff once in the serving keg.

      • Isiah says:

        This is interesting. I’ll be brewing my 3rd iteration of my NEIPA on Saturday. Normally I have a 6oz Whirlpool going around 130F (5gal). So you’re saying I could just not whirlpool and go straight to dry hopping during active fermentation? Sounds like a shorter (and cheaper) brew day to me so I’m down to try it if there isn’t a perceived difference!

        • Hello Isiah, that does kind of work. I’ve gone back to whirlpooling at low temps for at least 30 minutes. It does seem to add a better juiciness to the beer.
          My typical whirlpool now is 108* – then I pitch my yeast at 85*

          • Isiah says:

            Awesome, good to know! Any reason for pitching yeast so “warm”? It always takes me so long to drop temp from, say, 85F to 70F, so if I could pitch yeast at 85F with no problems then I’m all for that as well. Thanks Marshall!

      • Steve says:

        Have you tried using Summit instead of Columbus?

        Have you tried Medusa hops in your Green Clone? Read the description of this hop. It sounds very much like the description of Green.

        • No I haven’t tried Summit like that. If you mean for bittering? I’d lean more towards Warrior or something more neutral. Summit hasn’t come up in any of my conversations yet.
          I tried Medusa this summer but not in a Green clone. Green has been commercially available for a lot longer than Medusa (Medusa was released last year). Some of the descriptors do sound like Green as you suggest. I didn’t get many of those flavors when I tried it though. I remember being unimpressed overall.

    • Mr.Dingles says:

      I’m assuming the extreme temp drop after 24 hours is to send those yeasts into dormancy? Fascinating.

      • Hi Mr. Dingles haha I love the screen name.
        The first temp drop is to shock the yeast a bit and calm fermentation. Since esters are volatile, my hopes are that the drop in temp will slow fermentation just enough to not blow off my esters.

  • Isomerization says:

    Love the post and thanks for the shout out! I’m brewing my stab tomorrow, going with a simpler grain bill of GP, flaked oats and honey malt (SRM 7). I’m curious how you arrived at the hop selection. I’ve always felt like Citra and Amarillo were definitely 2/3 hops in Julius, but couldn’t quite figure the 3rd. Apollo seems like a great option if I had any an hand (I’m using Simcoe in the whirlpool but not dry hop). I’m also planning on adding the T-58 with WB-06 on day 1, got to get that bubblegum! Mashing at 157F to try and keep it from drying out.

    • Sure thing man! Sorry I took so long to reply to this. I’m not getting notifications for some reason.
      157 worked great for me for that yeast selection. The beer had great body, but drank real clean with tons of citrus feel. Without sounding cliché…it was juicy…haha.
      For the hops – I did a bunch of single hop experiments to get to know all the hops better and then started blending based on my findings. I had Simcoe in the original recipe, and feel like it could still fit. It’s too hard to know for sure.
      I’m brewing right now actually. I’m doing way different hops and a much simpler malt bill today, but keeping the 3 yeasts and changing the pitching rates/schedule quite a bit. I made starters yesterday with the T58 and WB06 so I could taste them again. I haven’t really decided how I’m going to pitch tonight. I might be leaning towards following something similar to your idea and underpitch T58/WB06 together for 24 hours this time.

      • HokieJoe says:

        How did your last brew go? Did you prefer the different yeast schedule?

        • Hi HokieJoe – This pitching schedule seemed to take off a little quicker than the previous one simply because I was pitching more yeast on the front end, I’d guess. I’d say it still smells incredible, but I haven’t tasted it yet. My closed chest freezer is filling my entire 3 car garage with fruity aromas. I can’t wait to taste it haha but that’s every brew!

  • Justin says:

    Hey Marshall,

    Quick question regarding your water adjustments…

    I am working off the Bru’N water template and it gives the following options as salt additions that I can input:

    Gypsum
    Epsom Salt
    Canning Salt
    Baking Soda
    Calcium Chloride
    Chalk
    Pickling Lime
    Magnesium Chloride
    Lactic

    The spreadsheet also lists the following water properties that are adjusted based on salt additions (in ppm):
    – Calcium
    – Magnesium
    – Sodium
    – Sulfate
    – Chloride
    – Bicarbonate

    In your water adjustments, what Bicarbonate level did you achieve (in ppm)? Also, what should I be entering as my desired target to match up with yours for Calcium, Magnesium and Chloride? If I am looking to increase my overall Calcium and Magnesium levels, what Salts should I add to do so?

    • I had to open my spreadsheet to see. My bicarb level is -145ppm with gypsum, epsom salt, and canning salt.
      I have a custom target based on the ions I’d like. I don’t think there’s a Desired Water Profile as Bru’n Water has it listed in the sheet that will match what I was trying to achieve.
      If you want to increase your calcium and magnesium (of course it depends on your base water) you can use gypsum and calcium chloride. I use canning salt for my chloride to keep the calcium as near zero as possible.

      • Justin says:

        Thanks! In the version of Bru’n Water that I have, there is the option of entering in a custom water profile you want to achieve so that is why I am asking. I am able to enter in PPM values for all of the fields I mentioned above, so figured I’d try and map to what you had listed. Thanks so much!

      • Justin says:

        Do you mind sharing where your Sodium level is currently targeted at in PPM? Thanks man.

      • Justin says:

        Any suggestion on the Sodium PPM?

  • Justin says:

    Hey Marshall, any suggestions on the sodium level (in PPM) you target?

    Thanks,
    Justin

  • Mike says:

    Hello,
    I have a question on the amount of yeast you are pitching. Based on the yeast calculators I use for 11 gallons at 1.066 OG the 26 grams of total yeast is far too little. The calculator estimates the 26 grams at 260 billion cells and the target for the batch to be 672 billion so that leave this short 412 billion cells. Most things I have read indicate that you are better off slightly over pitching since stressed yeast gives off bad aromas and flavors. I’ve done a lot of batches and always slightly over pitched and never had any issues with stressed yeast.

    I just want to verify that the 26 grams enough for an 11 gallon batch. It just seems like it is not nearly enough yeast.

    Thanks.

    • That’s kind of a generalized question in my knowledge of yeast cell counts. For instance, s04 t58 and wb06 all have different cell counts per gram. So, without a little more information the math is incomplete. (This is how I understand it anyway)
      I typically pitch about 22 grams per 12 gallon batch and I don’t have any issues with fermentation. In fact, you want the yeast stressed somewhat to bring out the esters we’re after.

  • Werral says:

    some info about Treehouse Beers from Nate:
    – “theoretical IBUs on Julius/ Green etc well north of 100.”
    – “no flaked anything…”
    – “the only pale beer I have brewed with wheat was Curiosity Six..”

    • Yes I agree and have been making adjustments as I learn more about this recipe.
      My theoretical IBUs are way over 100.
      I’m about to make another update to the recipe that simplifies it even further than I have. No wheat at all.
      I’m leaving a couple of things in for flavor simply because I don’t think I’ll ever be able to replicate his beers exactly. However, this is getting so close in flavor and appearance that it definitely carries the signature Treehouse flavor, and therefore close enough for homebrewing purposes. Maybe with enough versions brewed I’ll be able to dial it in to clone level.

  • Alfred says:

    Hello,

    I’ve never used dry yeast before so I have a couple questions.

    “Day 1 – 4 grams of S-04 and 2 grams of WB-06 at 74* for 24 hours”
    – are you adding the dry yeast into the cooled wort or are your re-hydrating it first?
    – if you are re-hydrating, do you re-hydrate both strains in one vessel or are your re-hydrating them separately
    “Day 2 – reduce temperature to 60* and pitch 18 grams of S04 and 2 grams of T58”
    – same questions as above

    “Day 5 – raise temp to 70* and dry hop for 4 days”
    – are you adding the dry hops to the primary fermenter or are you transferring to a secondary on to hops?

    “Day 9 – cold crash for 4 days and keg or bottle”
    – what temp are you cold crashing to?

    Cheers for beers!

    • Hi Alfred, happy to answer these questions and thanks for taking the time to read through the whole thing.
      I do not bother with re-hydrating the dry yeasts that I’ve used form Fermentis. They take off so fast, that I’ve never even considered it.
      I always dry hop in my primary fermenter – rarely will I ever transfer off the trub and out of primary unless the beer will be aging for some reason. There is too much risk of oxidation for me.
      I usually crash to 42ºF.
      Let me know if you have any other questions!

  • Tim says:

    Hey Marshall by any chance could you share your Green or Haze recipes? Great work by the way! I’ getting ready to give this recipe a stab this weekend! Are you planning on updating this before the end of the week?

    • I’ll update it tomorrow. I’ve just been looking for time to do it.
      I haven’t fully written the Green or Haze recipes yet, but I’ll get them up as soon as possible. Looking for a few tweaks before I publish anything on those 2. SAP will be included once I release those.

      • Tim says:

        Thank you for updating the recipe! Any tasting notes vs the “old” recipe?

        • Hi Tim, I’d say this one is cleaner as it drops the wheat. I also dropped the Biscuit because I felt like it added too much toastiness as a subtle roasted flavor. Overall it’s very similar – just dialed in more.

          • Tim says:

            When you pitch your yeast at 85 do you just let it free fall to 74?

          • Yes I do. I started doing that after Scott Janish’s article about pitching temps and glycerol. There was some coinciding research I found that insisted there are no ill effects pitching warm like that, and it in fact cured problems like lag time. I only notice issues when I massively underpitch (and I’m talking like 2 grams of yeast per fermenter) the beer will take on a slight medicinal flavor.

          • Tim says:

            One more question for you. When you transfer your wort to your fermenter do you let the break material settle and then dump it off before pitching? I’ve been thinking about doing this because even with the use of my hop blocker I still end up with a lot of hop matter in my fermenter. I’ve been doing some research on the matter and most seem to think it doesn’t add any off or undesired flavors. Just wondering what your two cents are.

          • It shouldn’t create any off flavors. I don’t transfer that stuff because I want the extra room in my fermenter. When I transfer, I use a closed transfer setup with a hose clamped onto the bottling spigot at the bottom of my ale pail.

          • Tim says:

            So I’ve been reading through the TH isolation thread and I’m curious why no oxygenation of the wort before pitching the yeast? Did I miss something?

          • Hey no worries. I don’t oxygenate because dry yeast carry the necessary sterols for a healthy growth cycle. You can oxygenate it, but my goal is to stress the yeast. I want them to work for my esters.
            Oxygen is a fuel for lipid synthesis which creates sterols.

          • Tim says:

            I’ll remember that for next time. Have you given the CBC 1 carbonation a shot? I was thinking about doing it with one of my kegs for a side by side comparison. If you have, did you notice any contributions to mouthfeel?

          • I have not. I don’t understand what it can do yet. I’d probably need to order some CBC-1 and do some one off small batches to get a feel for the yeast first before I tried mixing it in hoping it will change the mouthfeel.
            For me the softness was about the simplest and most logical approach…if you want soft beer, start with soft water. IMO adding salts like cacl2 add too much hardness to the water to ever have the right mouthfeel and softness. I think chloride is good, but I also think calcium is bad for what we’re trying to accomplish.

          • Tim says:

            I looked into use canning salts but EZ Water does have that as an additive. So I’m not sure how to calculate the ppm and I don’t have my own water test kit. Maybe I should invest in one. I am currently using %100 RO and building my water up. With the last batch I brew I used cacl2 and my Calcium was 84 ppm. Which is double what you had.

          • A water kit helps for sure, but it adds another layer of complexity to everything.
            I’ve gotten my calcium down to about 20ppm now.
            If you look at the wiki page for each ion compound you’ll see the formula and how to break them down. Cacl2 is 1 calcium ion for 2 chloride ions. So like when I use table salt I know that sodium chloride is 1:1. Canning salt is sodium chloride also with a ratio of 1:1 so you can sub table salt in the water calculator and still get the same ppm.

  • Troy says:

    Marshall my friend you are a true gentleman and a scholar. I am sitting at work and just opened the latest email update – oh mer gerrrrrd I cannot wait leave and give this a go. Have you tried Imperial Yeast with any of your previous iterations? I cannot speak to them too much as a relatively new brewer but they have definitely improved the quality of my beers even before I started manipulating water chemistry. The following three come to mind – the latter included given your recent hefe epiphany.

    A04 Barbarian: “Ready to attack your IPA, Barbarian produces stone fruit esters that work great when paired with citrus hops. Barbarian will give you what you need for an exceptionally balanced IPA.”
    Temp: 62-70F, 16-21C // Flocculation: Medium // Attenuation: 73-74%

    A38 Juice: “Juicy. Fruity. Juice is an amazing strain for East Coast IPAs. The ester profile of Juice brings out the aromas and flavors of the new school hops and creates a beers that is greater than the sum of its parts. Keep an eye on this strain, it likes to move to the top of fermentation and will climb out the fermenter if too full.”
    Temp: 64-74F, 18-23C // Flocculation: medium // Attenuation: 72-76%

    B56 Rustic: “This unique yeast can be used in your saison, farmhouse ale, or other Belgian styles where high ester levels are important. Rustic typically produces a lot of bubblegum and juicy aromas that compliment complex maltiness.”
    Temp: 68-80F, 20-27C // Flocculation: Medium // Attenuation: 72-76%

    I really appreciate the work you’ve done here – thank you! I will follow up once this is in glass.

    • Hi Troy! Thanks for taking the time to read the post. I hope your beer turns out awesome.
      I have used a couple of Imperial yeasts. I love their product, but can’t get it in Houston without ordering on the internet – and then it gets to be like $15 for a single can with shipping.
      I used the Citrus and Barbarian strains, then used the blend of the 2. I would love to try their Belgian strains too.
      Barbarian was a solid ‘Conan’ tasting yeast.
      Citrus was really awesome but lent itself to a subtle saison like flavor that sort of overpowered some hops. I bet with the right hop combination it would be killer.

      • Troy says:

        Split the batch into two 5-gallon carboys. Pitched ‘Juice’ into one and ‘Rustic’ into the other. The description of juice was not kidding – thankfully had a blowoff hose as that bad boy was ripping giant CO2 farts and dumping krausen into blowoff jar. My closet smells so damn good right now! Also, really surprised by the difference in colors – Juice currently has a bright thick orange opacity whereas rustic has a deeper brown/amber transparency.

        Quick follow up….Why the need to cold crash? It is my rudimentary understanding that cold crashing is for clarity purposes so given Julius’ infamous haze are there other benefits to cold crashing that I am not aware of? Regardless, does the residual haze come from the crazy amount of dry hops? Or the big whirlpool? So.many.questions.

        • Awesome man! Yeah it’s always weird to see different yeasts make the same beer a different color.
          I had heard when they first released that strain it was basically 1318, but feedback since then kind of contradicts that a little. Although 1318 can be a beast too.

          So this is where I kind of get on my high horse about yeasty beers. haha
          To me, if you’re using suspended yeast to “chase” the haze then you’re approaching the entire style in a manner that will result in very unstable beers, and ultimately a keg full of disaster like clogged lines and clear beer with all the goodies dropped out.
          I cold crash because the haze shouldn’t be from heavier particles like yeast cells and sediment causing material like hot break. My beers will hold their haze for weeks and even months. Where local breweries in my area who approach it as a ‘haze only goal’ usually end up with clear beers in a matter of a few days after canning/bottling.
          To each their own. I started brewing these beers that way, then realized it didn’t work. The haze should be a combination of everything in your process. Treehouse has been measured by yeast cell counts to contain no more yeast than a typical bright IPA.

    • Tim says:

      So I’ve been reading through the TH isolation thread and I’m curious why no oxygenation of the wort before pitching the yeast? Did I miss something?

  • Dan m says:

    Are you using dextrose to naturally carbonate?

  • Samuel Collin says:

    Hi Marshall, very interesting post ! I have few questions about IBU (real and theorical). You said that your target is around 30 IBU (feeling at drinking) but you also said that your theorical IBU is over 100 (as Treehouse said too).

    I usually brew same batch size as you do (11 gal.) and I have a counter flow chiller so it’s taking me at least 30 mins to fill my fermenter at 85F (closer to 45 mins during summer). Generally I am doing my hopstand at 167F. Beersmith give me some IBU but I think it’s not really accurate. Do you have any tips to know approx my real IBU (I’am affraid of having too much bitterness of sweetness)

    Big Thanks !!!

    Sam

    • Hi Sam, thanks for visiting the site. Sorry for the late reply.
      In my experience, this is what I’ve seen…the dry hopping with certain hops will add perceived bitterness in large amounts with pellets. I’ve even found research that shows alpha acids can isomerize on their own through time as a natural decaying process once your beer is packaged. To me, the whole point of IBU is to visually show what level of isomerized alpha acids are present in the beer, but it only takes into account for the bitterness added during your boiling process.
      What I would like to say is, because of how BeerSmith (and really the beer industry) measures IBUs as compared to how we make IPAs these days, the figure is somewhat a moot point. In addition to that, Centennial or Cascade adds more bitter flavor through dry hopping than some of the other fruity hops and quite a bit more bitterness [flavor only here] than some of the milder hops we use.
      I suppose you could say I only put that information in there as a reference point for people who are using BeerSmith to brew at home. I wish I had a better answer for you, but I do agree that your IBUs are not accurate.
      Some tricks I like to use are:
      – during whirlpool if under 180º, add your WP addition as only 1 minute to reduce the amount of IBUs displayed in BeerSmith
      – move your knockout hops back a little in the recipe to represent the true amount of time those hops will be above 180º
      Other than that? I’m kinda of not much help here.

      • Craig says:

        Hi Marshall,
        Love the website and the detail you go into, keep up the good work!

        I was hoping you may be able to offer some advice.

        I’m planning on brewing a 5GL batch but I can’t get Apollo where I live (Australia).
        Can yo urecommend an alternative hop?

        I’m struggling to find a suitable substitute but I do have access to Eureka which I *think* may do the job: http://www.hopslist.com/hops/dual-purpose-hops/eureka/

        I would love to hear your thoughts on a substitute 🙂

        Thanks in advance!

        • Australia 🇦🇺?? Awesome!
          I’m sure you can substitute the Apollo and still get pretty close. What about a blend of Columbus and Amarillo? I think that would cover most of the flavor descriptors of Apollo?
          Curious your thoughts.

          • Craig says:

            Hey Marshall, sorry for the late reply, unfortunately I didn’t seem to get a notification of your reply.

            I managed to get hold of what seems to be the last 300g of Apollo in Oz so looking forward to brewing this weekend 🙂

            I think you’re right re Columbus and Amarillo but thankfully I wont need them 😉

            I scaled a version of the recipe (I use a grainfather) for a 6GL Batch ultimately aiming for 5GL in the fermenter, I thought you may want to share it if you decide wanted to, you can find it here:

            https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/576822/julius-clone-trinity-brewing-scaled-to-grainfather

            I also have a 10GL version based on your recipe that I scaled from, happy to share that also if it’s of use.

            I’ll let you know how it goes 🙂

          • Hey awesome thanks for sharing! I have been meaning to cut these back to 5 gallons, but just can’t seem to get around to it. I have hops in the freezer that need wort badly!
            Hopefully some of the other readers will enjoy your 5 gallon recipe too. I’ll put a link up in the page letting people know it’s down here.

  • Casey says:

    Hey, enjoyed the writeup and definitely interested in trying out this brew. It sounds like you have had more attempts at this than most people, and I’m surprised nobody else has mentioned the use of apollo in the huge thread on HBT. Looks like I will have to order some from an upcoming homebrewclub bulk buy! What do you think about halving the yeast usage? It seems two packs is quite a lot for a brew whose gravity isn’t too crazy.

    • Hi Casey thanks for checking the site out. I definitely think the yeast amounts can be adjusted based Brew volumes and gravity.
      One thing I’ve learned here is there’s no ‘right way’ and it’s more about what works for you.

  • Jerry says:

    Are the knockout hops now being replaced by the 108 whirlpool for 30 min?

    • Hi Jerry,
      I apologize for the way the recipe reads. I need to adjust the BeerSmith file for the website. I do add both knockout hops and whirlpool hops. Usually my knockout hops are the same size as my dry hops.

      • Brian says:

        Hey Marshall, thanks for posting this…lots of good info here. I’m currently in the middle of fermenting my first try at this. I’m following your fermentation schedule…and so far on day 4 I can smell a lot of “Belgian-like” esters. Not sure if that’s normal…certainly a different smell than my normal NEIPAs that I make with 1318 yeast. I’m thinking of dry hopping earlier on Day 5 as fermentation already seems to be slowing and I assume I want to catch some of that with the dry hop. So the recipe as posted only lists 1min additions…which I assumed were the 108 degree whirlpool hops. Are you saying there are also knockout hops in addition to these? Thanks

        • Hi Brian,
          Yes the 1 minute additions are the whirlpool additions as the recipe is written above. The recipe of course looks a little different in BeerSmith and for some reason (design flaws I haven’t addressed yet) the recipe doesn’t display on the website 100% like I’d like it to.
          I don’t typically smell any Belgian like esters when I use this yeast blend and fermentation schedule. Do you mind going over everything for me?
          I have noticed that some people have had different experiences than me in that they acquire some phenolic notes early on, but after the beer is carbed/kegged that goes away. I’m not sure why some people are getting that Belgian character early on, but everyone tends to agree that the beer changes quickly and those flavors/aromas go away before the beer is ready to drink. Don’t be afraid to dry hop early. I always tell people not to follow any exact schedules. You don’t tell the beer when it’s ready, it tells you..am I right?

          • Brian says:

            Haha yup you are right so I had no hesitation with dry hopping earlier. I am happy to go over everything with you…I’ve been “chasing” that tree house flavor for awhile now. I’m “only” 90 min from tree house so I’d be willing to send you some cans to help you with your “research” so hopefully we can all get closer to their beers. Send me an email if you don’t mind and we can talk details. I’m fortunate that my homebrew setup allows really good temperature control so I’m hoping the aromas end up right where we want them after this is done fermenting. So I’m still a little confused. Is there still a whole batch of knockout hops missing from this recipe as posted on the website? If so that’s a lot of hops! I have it entered in BeerSmith and the IBUs are similar as you have here. I had to adjust the grain amounts a bit for my system but I expected that. Thanks again

          • Awesome! Email on the way! haha
            No the knockout hops aren’t missing. What I’ve found is that Treehouse seems to have this perfect balance of malt, hops, and yeast esters. That ultimately led me to adding less and less hops to bring the esters forward, as well as, mashing higher to bring out more of the breadiness that residual malt flavors can bring.
            I’m typically heavy handed when it comes to dry hopping, but if you want that perfect Treehouse balanced flavor and aroma then you’ll want to dial back the overall amount of hops. I feel like somehow their head brewer Nate worked out the perfect trifecta of those elements.

      • Jerry says:

        Just finished dry hopping. I used Amarillo in the kettle as my LHBS didn’t have Apollo; however, I did dry hop with Apollo. I’m interested to see how this yeast experiment goes—my first time using dry yeast.

  • Devon says:

    Marshall,

    How do you achieve 150PPM Sulfates and 100PPM Chlorides with only 20PPM Calcium? Are you using Sodium and Magnesium to hit this?

    Just trying to figure out how this Tree House alter ego has high sulfates and chloride with lower Calcium:

    https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3590-minerals-profile-in-the-glass

    Thanks,
    Devon

    • I lean towards Kimmich’s sentiment (obviously or you wouldn’t be asking this question), but yeah I don’t use gypsum like I used to. I use canning salt, calcium chloride, gypsum, and epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) to hit my numbers. My latest using all 4 of these building up from reverse osmosis water looks like this:
      Ca 15
      Mg 26
      Na 78
      So2 140
      Cl 120
      Hope that helps!

      • Devon Reed says:

        Yes, this is what I figured, thanks! Any reason why you are using less Gypsum these days? Is there something you’re trying to achieve by keeping that Calcium level down while boosting the SO4 and CL levels with other cations?

        I have the fortunate luxury of being able to drink Tree House all the time. I am amazed every time I drink one of their beers. I ask my self, “how does Nate do this? What did he do to get it this way?”. The thing that always strikes me is the mouthfeel and balance. It has a nice sweetness to it but it quickly dries out and you have a wave of nice subtle bitterness that prevents it from being cloying.

        • Ah you lucky son of a gun! I can’t even get Treehouse anymore. Which is weird to me given the sudden influx of product from the new facility. I have a trip planned to Connecticut for Christmas though and am hoping I get to see the brewery.
          Yes, I started going lower on my calcium because for me the approach seemed to make sense – if you want soft beer, start with soft water and keep the hardness ions out of the equation. That approach has worked really well for me. I’ve gotten feedback that the mouthfeel is spot on.
          There are breweries near me who are adding like 300ppm Cl and I can taste it. I can’t deal with that chalky mineral flavor when drinking more than one can. On the other hand, I can drink Treehouse all day and it only seems to get better after the 2nd and 3rd can.

      • Andrew Brisbin says:

        I’m new to water treatment and am planning on brewing this recipe trying to attain the water profile you suggested using RO water that I’m purchasing from a local grocery store.

        Would you be able to provide grams/gallon for each brewing salt that you are adding for your water treatment?

        Do you treat your sparge water the same way (start with RO and use the additions mentioned)?

        Thanks!

        • Hey thanks for visiting!
          I can’t really say what your salts will be because each brew is different. Are you familiar with any of the water calculators or spreadsheets? You’ll need to input your grains and amounts of each grain, also whether or not each grain is base, malted, crystal, and so on. Then you’ll be able to adjust your chemistry from there. It sounds difficult but can be pretty easy once you get the hang of it.
          I used to use Bru’n Water (https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/) but started to have issues with accuracy. I then switched to Brewer’s Friend (https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/) and that seems to get me where I need to go pretty much every time.
          Good luck!
          – M

      • Tld6008 says:

        I am trying to make your recipe although a 6 gal batch. I am using RO water and can’t get my Ca level down to where you have it. I am treating 9 gallons total with the following:
        Gypsum-1.7g
        Epsom salt-10.5g
        canning salt- 5g
        Cal Chloride-2.3g
        I have run this through every water calculator I can find (with different results on each one) but cant come close to you on the calcium.

        What do you think?
        Do you adjust your total volume or just mash water?

        Great site BTW

        • Yeah each water calculator will give you slightly different results.
          I ran it through Brewer’s Friend and came up with
          2g CaSO4
          1g CaCl2
          5g MgSO4
          3g NaCl
          that got me pretty close. One thing to keep in mind is the human palate can’t taste a swing resulting from missing your salt chemistry by 10 or 15 points. I’ve read that the difference can be much greater than that, even to the 30, 40, or even 50 point difference. I just did a batch with no salt additions and it turned out pretty good, but a little thinner than I hoped.

    • Jerry says:

      Just finished the cold crash, siphoning to keg and it has a Belgian taste to it. I read in the comments that this characteristic should disappear fairly quickly.

  • Jeremy says:

    Marshall, really appreciate the work you put in on this… probably brewing something very similar this weekend or next week. I’ve been experimenting with yeast blending, mostly combinations of US-05 and US-04… excited to try the wheat yeast with the 04. For an 11 gal batch, looking to simplify the process a bit and will plan on running 3 packs of 04 and 1 pack of the WB-06, probably ambient temps around 63-65F. I’m also looking to run a water profile a little closer to what Shaun Hill uses (so I hear) for his hoppy brews, 100 ca, 10 mg, 96 so4, and 144 cl. I’ll post results when complete-

    • That sounds like a great brew Jeremy! Thanks for posting and I can’t wait to hear how it turns out.

      • Jeremy says:

        Marshall, thanks again… sorry for the delay but holidays and kids blah blah, the beer turned out phenomenal. I basically ran a primary of 11 gal with four packs of US-04 around 62, let it Krausen then added one packet of WB-06. Two week primary, then dry-hopped and crashed on day two of dry hop. my earlier mixes or blends of US05/04 made the beer seem almost muddy, yet having good flavor. This with the WB-06 made that orange hue explode, and gave just a hint of spice on the back end. I’m certainly brewing this again, maybe i’ll get a can of julius soon to go side by side.

  • Erick says:

    I am very new to brewing and would like to try this recipe but simplify it a bit. I see you recommend using WY3638 as a single yeast alternative. How much should I use? Should I only pitch the yeast on day 1? Would I be able to achieve decent, even if not perfect, results if I only do a primary fermentation? Forgive my ignorance. Also, I see what you did there with the Konami code. I’m a big fan of Contra 😉

    • Hi Erick! Thanks for visiting the site.
      3638 isn’t perfect, but it comes out very fruity. Your best bet might be to pitch a full healthy yeast amount only on day 1 and let it ferment room temp if you don’t have a cooler or temperature control vessel. It won’t be perfect by any means, but you will get a nice fruit forward beer that’s easy to drink.
      I always recommend doing only primary with almost any beer, but especially with anything hoppy. The more times you rack it around the more opportunity it has to oxidize.

  • Joel Connolly says:

    Hey Marshall

    Wow! I’m in awe! What a write up and such awesome dedication working this hard to solve the puzzle.

    A quick clarification: in the brewers notes you list a different fermentation schedule to the recipe section. Which one is correct? Specifically, the biggest difference I see is the “tertiary” fermentation step which suggests crashing almost to 32f, followed by 4 days at 45f (I presume this is the dry hopping?) which, although not listed, I presume is still followed by cold crash?

    Thank you so much!

    Joel

    Ps also from Australia 🙂

    • Hey Joel! Cool stuff man. One day I’ll visit down there!
      Yeah for some reason I haven’t had time to dive into yet, the recipe shows up a little different in BeerSmith than on the website.
      The written fermentation schedule in the description is my correct guide for this beer.
      Apologies for the confusion and I hope you give it a shot.
      – M

  • Bob says:

    Hi Marshall

    Excellent write up.

    I have recently began endeavouring in trying to make some real juice bombs here in spain after thinking i could achieve something similar to deppelganger or julius in terms of how bold they are, i dont need to explain to you. btw you have no clue how hard it was to be able to try those beers out here. I have tried trilliums and pliny elder stuff too but to me treehouse is as you say perfectly engineered beers. I believe you are absolutely correct with the esters, i have gotten to the same conclusion myself upon brewing my first batch i thought striagh away, where’s that hefyness? I straight away learned that oats are not what can create that round and full mouthfeel (though they can certainly help.)
    Ive had good success with esteryness and gtting very! strong hints of vanilla and banana from mangrove jacks bavarian yeast. Im also a big fan of london ESB from lallemand for it creates a slight tropical aroma that i believe gets ridiculously exarcebated when hops rich in tropical and citrus smelling terpenes get biotransformed. Moreover it provides a background of green apple that just creates a fresh base for the hop profiles to carry through. Im sure the esters are extremely!! important in a hoppy beer for they complement the terpenes and terpenoid oils caught in the haze. A beer will never be as frehsly hoppy as a hazey beer for the oils need something to hang on to or they will rise where they are more easily volatilized through oxidation etc or percipitate with yeast particles and never come to light. I am going around 75% esb and 25% bavarian yeast and i repitch bavarian yeast when i dry hop usually after 24h (esb is a beast!) so that the yeast can biotransform whatever hop oils from dryhopping. I let fermentation temp naturaly reach 20C and as the esb is quiting down i dry hop and raise temps to 22ish to really kick the ester production. Thankfully bost yeasts have not displayed to produce a lot of fusel alcohols, except perhaps when i was adding sugar but only slightly.
    People who make cannabis extracts through non polar hydrocarbons need to subsequently purge the gas from the extraction, usually n butane, they never! go over 50/60C under full vacuum in order to avoid terpenes boiling off. So to me it has always made perfect sense to never whirlpool higher than 60C, I try to stay between 40/50 and i believe thats why youve had better results than higher temps. You are in the sweet spot where a lot of the plant oils can be made soluble in water but not high enough that the rate of volitilaztion will be through the roof. I also think adding some hops 5min left in the boil results better than adding at flameout, if youre gonna flame out just wpool at a low tem, but still boil some hops for 5min.
    Although i see your point when you talk about hop quantities and keeping the beer balanced, but not everyone gets the same hops, the citra i can get or that you can get or that treehouse gets are insanely different, if i want something close to the juiciness and hop taste i want im using 450/550 grams of hops in 5 gallons, i have gone over that but much more than that theres no real benefit though some tasters claimed to have percieved some more accentuated notes but not by much. Tbh i have a bit of a theory that maybe places like treehouse even dry and cure hop flowers as if it were cannabis to really preserve that fresh aroma, dry at low temperatures and about 55% rh for long time and cure at 10/14c where sugars in the plant can naturally ferment and the chlorophil degrade, and then once curing is done store at normal hop storing temps. Keeping that freshly cut hop aroma. I even think that using flowers and grinding them just before brewing and dry hopping would be even better for maximizing the essential oils available. Tbh pellets are just hops that have been ground mechanically (hence heat will oxidze some oils not to mention volatilize the most susceptible ones), then get pressed further spreading the oils and exposing them to air on the pellet surface and get stored at god knows what humidity in a bag at cool temperatures where bio organic processes wont really happen. In their flower form the oils are protected by the petals and leaf.
    anyways enough ranting thanks for the info man, im glad to see someone else agrees on the bavarian yeast! I hope my knowledge spurs some inquisity in you too! Let me know what you think about grinding hops just before brewing/dry hopping.

  • Aaron Malburg says:

    Hello,

    I am brewing this recipe today but unfortunately I am not following it to a T. I just wanted to say thank you for the advice.

    I am using Omega Yeast DIPA Yeast and adding jackfruit in secondary. Should be fun.

    I’ll report back with the results.

    Aaron

  • Vladimir says:

    Hello from Riga (Latvia) – your research is amazing! Thank you! I was in Three house brewery in Aprile (lucky to get Haze in cans). So right now I’m trying somehow reproduce this great beer. You mention in comments that there will be some other recipes (and updated version for 5 gallons) from Three house – where I can find them?

    • Unfortunately I haven’t had the time I wanted to devote to this website the last few months. I’ll be back brewing again this week and updated recipes and such!
      Thanks for hanging in there and I look forward to hearing how your brew went.

  • Vladimir says:

    have some questions:
    1. if I understand right total dry hope time will be 8 days (4 days + 4 days cold crash)?
    2. If you do not do secondary – how to avoid that a lot of hops will go to the bottle during bottling or you think this is not a problem for a beer? Is there a problem if some of the hops will be flowing on the fermenter surface?
    3. you add your WP hops only at 108F, right?

    • For dry hop time I typically do 2 to 3 days at the end of fermentation and 1 to 2 days cold crash. So it wouldn’t be 8 days total, always somewhere between 4 to 5 days total. I use fine mesh steel cages to filter out most hop material. I’ll post pictures soon. Maybe even take some YouTube videos or something the next time I brew.
      Yes I whirlpool now at 108º for about 60 minutes.

  • Max says:

    Awesome man!sorry that im not good at english, i have some question as belw:
    1、when should I use Dextrose ,from the begining or just for the secondary fermentation in the keg/bottle?
    2、What’s the temperature and the amount of the washing water ?
    3、“1 minute additions are the whirlpool additions as the recipe” and “your whirlpool Temperature is 108F(drops from 180F to 108F in 5mins)”,so what should Ido from the end of boiling(212F) to 180F ?just wait ?
    4、what is the difference between bigger whirlpooling and whirlpooling?
    5、What is the total weight of the Combination of yeast(S04/T58/WB06:92%/5%/3%) ?20g for 11gal?
    6、How to avoid the contact between oxygen and fermentation liquid during the dry hop phase and bottling phase?
    Please forgive my ignorance :)

    Looking forward to your reply!
    Best Regards!

    • Hey no ignorance here. I’ll help all I can. There was a day I didn’t know anything!
      1. I only use dextrose to raise the abv at the end of a boil. I hate to complicate things further for you but I write these recipes at 80% efficiency and I usually hit mid 90’s so I don’t use any dextrose. You can add dextrose to bottle condition, but these beers HAVE to be kegged.
      2. Washing water as in sparge from mash? 170º
      3. yes, wait while actively cooling the wort with a copper coil
      4. bigger as in temperature or quantity of hops? temp = possible isomerization of hop oils, quantity = not enough hop flavor and oils in the wort
      5. 5lb batch I don’t know; 10lb batch is about 24 grams total
      6. dry hop just do it during active fermentation towards the end; bottling you can’t so you have to close transfer to kegs and force carb

      • Max says:

        I am so glad to receive your reply,thanks to Ur recipe, I did it yesterday ,what a wanderful and messy day!:)
        there is to much question during the brew,I really thought that If only you are there for me,aha, I can not wait to consult you about the details as below:

        1、 How to increase the temperature from 156°F(Mash In) to 168°F(Mash Out),just By heating it or Adjust it by boiling water?
        2、 Do I go straight into the phase of wort-cooling(212°F→108°F)after the boiling? I mean there is lots of concretion(protein、hops , etc.)
        3、 Do I need to keep the temperature at 108°F during WP?
        4、 What should I do to change the temperature from 108°F to 84°F(pitching temps),just wait or do actively cooling?and Do I need to prevent it from oxygen during 108°F to 84°F
        5、 Is this the right fermentation step below?

        Day 1 –pitch all day 1 at regular pitching temp 72°F
        Day 2 – reduce temperature to 64°F
        Day 8 – raise temp to 70°F and dry hop
        Day 10 – cold crash for 2 days and keg or bottle

        6、 My Fermentor system is the “keg+beer distributor+airlock” so Do I need to transfer the beer into other keg?there is lots of hops、yeasts and other sediment At the bottom of the keg;
        7、according to my fermentor system,i can carbide beer in the keg by Removing the “”beer distributor+airlock”,so can I carbide beer from D8 to the end of the fermentation?

        Looking forward to your reply!
        Best Regards!
        aha~~~~

        • Hey great to hear!
          I’ll go through this quickly:
          1. heat your sparge water
          2. yes, quickly cool as fast as possible. suggested reading: “Joy of Homebrewing” and “How to Brew”
          3. yes
          4. cool as quickly as possible. many reasons included in the books mentioned above
          5. yes, that’s my latest and most updated fermentation schedule
          6. I’m not familiar with the airlock on a keg system because I never purchased that equipment but I don’t suggest fermenting in kegs because of dip tube being submerged in trub after fermentation and cold crashing.
          7. I always suggest knowing your gravity and letting the beer tell you when to carb, but some (many) people start carbing during the end of fermentation. You just need to know your current and terminal gravities to estimate carb levels, you will also need a yeast capable of fermenting under pressure.

  • Paul says:

    Why so particular about 108F whirlpool…favorite number? haha

    • Hi Paul, the volatility point for most hop oils is 110º. By staying under 110º you maximize the extraction of hop flavor without any of the oils flashing off.
      180º is the isomerization point at which flavorful hop compounds turn to pine.

      • Chris Campbell says:

        Marshall, Thank you for all of your work. Can you give gram figures for your revised yeast schedule?

        • Absolutely man, if you go by the calculators and do it exact to the gram it works out to:
          S04 – 23g
          T58 – 1.25g
          WB06 – .75g
          This is for 10 gallons. There are people who are also having luck with a little more T58, but I’ve never tasted their beers so I can’t say. For now I’m happy with the blend the way it is.
          Next up, hopefully tomorrow will be something very similar to this beer with a little flaked oats and all Enigma hops DDH.

  • Steve says:

    How is it going with the Green recipe?

    Thank you for all your work!!!
    Steve

  • WIld Oakes says:

    So I got to say you spark my interest on this recipe. I read the blog you stated in your post and found it to be very interesting. Currently right now I am on day two of my own batch following your recipe. In the name of experiments I split the same batch into a different FV where I pitch Wyeast 1318 (House yeast). I really like the idea of low calcium ppm to stress the yeast. I’m following the same procedure as temperature and dry hopping to see if I can notice any different esters of my house yeast. I currently ferment low with a steady rise. I am curious though if you’ve tried the yeast trio and a batch of just S-04? The T-58 and WB-06 just seem like such a small amount to me to even get a chance to start before S-04 has taken over. While reading that blog on homebrewtalk forum, I notice everybody using higher ratios, but I also didn’t see many of them being very successful. Any previous brews of just S-04, where you’ve noticed a difference?

  • Morgan says:

    Hi Marshall! I’m new to this wonderful world of home brewing (thanks to my wife who gave me a starter kit for Christmas ❤️). I’ve read your thread and must say that you seem to be the Nate of homebrewers with much skill and experience. Now to the questions:
    1. You said that these beers must be kegged. If that’s the case, should I don’t bother even give it a go if I’m stuck with in-bottle- carbonation with sugar?
    2. (With the risk of being laughed at) I’m thinking of doing this with the Biab-method in a 20-litre pot could you even point me in the right amount of malts direction?

    Thank you for your profound tolerance and patience!
    //Morgan from Sweden

    • Hey welcome to the addiction!…and thanks for the compliments!
      I would never laugh at an honest question like that. I made plenty of crazy mistakes along the way that someone else could easily laugh at, but that’s how you learn. You can make amazing IPAs that are bottle conditioned. It’s just paramount that you are careful with oxygen ingress while bottling. I’d say give it a go! As long as you follow a solid recipe and keep everything sanitary then you’ll end up with beer you like.
      I don’t have a recipe for 5 gallons/20 litres right now even though many people have asked for it.
      You can use something similar to this: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1797723/hoppy-goodness
      Let me know if you have any more questions, and good luck!

  • Patsfan says:

    Thanks for all the hard work and research. I’m clear on your process and recipe except for one thing. Can you please explain exactly you are currently performing your flameout and whirlpool hopping? Best I can tell, you are adding half your knockout hops at flameout, cooling rapidly to 108, adding the other half of your knockout hops, and then whirlpooling at 108 for 60 minutes. Is that correct?

  • Paul says:

    Great blog. It’s really inspiring. I live in the UK and have very limited access to the east coast style of beer so I have been creating my own with some really good results. I wanted to do your Julius recipe but I was looking at the comments and people were referencing wheat and oats in the grain bill but I couldn’t see them listed in the grain bill for the recipe. Am I missing something? Also, is this recipe available on BeerSmith?

  • Joey says:

    Really insightful post! Have not brewed in a few months, but I’m definitely wanting to try this out! I do have a question though, do you think this recipe is worth doing if I have to bottle condition?

  • Manuel says:

    Awesome blog and thanks a lot for the detailed recipe! Just some quick questions. The latest update does not including adding hops to the WP? Citra and Apollo at (1 min) means to toss in the hops one minute before the boiling ends? If the recipe is brewed on a smaller or larger scale by just linear increasing or decreasing the amount of grains and hops can I except to get a similar result?

    • Thanks for the kind words Manuel.
      The 1 minute addition is the WP. I add it that way in BeerSmith for perceived bitterness addition from the high quantity of hops.
      You can, but I’d say nothing in brewing is very linear. To attempt larger or smaller batches you would need to test from a baseline and adjust.

      • Manuel says:

        thanks a lot Marshall, really appreciate your feedback! I was also wondering how you get this typical NEIPA hazy mouth feeling without any addition of unmalted grain, like oats and wheat. Which ingredients or step does give you the haziness and NEIPA mouth feeling? What does your result look like? Is it really thick and juicy?

        • That’s a complicated questions. The answer lies in the process. Some of the mouthfeel comes from the yeast, some of it comes from the polyphenols from the hops, and some of it comes from the water chemistry. I have gotten to where I don’t even like thick chewy beers that are half oats.

          • Manuel says:

            Hi Marshall, thanks for all your help. We have brewed last Saturday and are very excited to see the results. These beers needs to be kegged but unfortunately we do have only the bottle option at the moment. Will try to avoid oxidation and hope the taste does not fade too fast. Any special reason you wait 8 days before try hopping or its just the day your fermentation finished?

  • Bill says:

    Thanks for all the great work putting this together, Marshall!

    I am looking to brew this batch in the next few days, but I had some quick questions about the yeast. How do you typically store the remaining dry yeast you don’t use or do you just toss it? Have you ever tried to rinse the yeast from one of your batches or do you figure the s04 would take over and ruin the proportions you’ve created? Thanks again for all your help with this!

    • Thanks and you’re welcome!
      I typically make bread with it!
      I’ve tried to rinse and reuse. You can get a couple of batches, but the Belgian flavor creeps in and the ratios get all whacky.

      • Bill says:

        Thanks for the reply!

        At least I can get a few batches out of it! This is my first time running a closed transfer so I am hoping I bypass the whole oxidation issue and could focus on the yeast profile. I will be making a split batch this Sunday using both your yeast recommendations along with yeast I stepped up from NEIPA can dregs. I will let you know how they come out!

  • Bob says:

    Hi in the post header it lists both dextrine and dextrose under ‘grain’. In the actual recipe it only lists 8oz of dextrose. Is this correct? If so do you add the dextrose (corn sugar) at the end of the boil or at a point after fermentation begins? Thanks! Looking forward to trying a 5.5 gallon version of this soon.

    • The dextrine isn’t sugar in that section of the page. I’m referring to the CaraFoam or dexrine malt.
      TBH – I have the dextrose in there as an ABV booster. Depending on mash efficiency some homebrewers will need a little extra fermentable sugar to reach the desired final ABV. I haven’t been using the sugar as I’ve been getting higher and higher efficiency.

  • benjomeng says:

    I currently have this beer brewed using your recipe in my fermentor. I am fortunate to have Tree House close to where I live. I have to tell you, I sampled the beer yesterday (before the dry hopping, which I also did yesterday), and then went to Tree House last night and got a pour of Julius. The flavors I got from the sample I tasted out of the fermentor were very close to what I drank last night at the brewery. I have not been this excited to taste a home brewed beer since my first batch. Drinking day cannot come soon enough (kegging this weekend), I will have a can of the most recent batch of Julius to compare side by side. Will try to link to a picture when I do. Cheers!

    • That’s so awesome man! I know it’s not exact, but for the purpose of homebrewing and drinking ‘Julius’ from 2k miles away I don’t know how I can get closer without a whole lot of access to Treehouse beers that I just don’t have.
      I’m excited for you! Can’t wait to hear how it turns out!

  • Munch says:

    Nice job man. Brewed this close to your recipe and it might be my best attempt ever. I’m in CT and I’ve had a good amount of Treehouse. This isn’t exactly Julius but who cares. It’s oh so Treehouse. Soft juicy and delicious. This won’t last long!

  • Chris G RVAHomebrew says:

    Marhall,
    I have followed your progression on this journey and we all owe you a great debt of gratitude.
    Taking my first shot at this today. Into fermentoer , hit all my numbers.
    My goodnes there was a pile of green trub in the kettle!
    I had a thought about yeast ratios.
    I assume a commercial brewer would use a brick of S-04 (500 g) and full 11.5 g packets of the T-58 and WB-06.
    I based my recipe on 500 g S-04 brick with two 11.5 g packets T-58 and one 11.5 g packet WB-06.
    I will let you know how this progresees.
    Prost!

    • Curious to hear how it turns out!
      Thanks for following and I hope your beer turns out great!
      I’ve never ordered commercial yeast but that seems like a logical process to follow. I’m curious how it turns out as many people have a lot of different ratios and they all get different results.

  • Patsfan says:

    Marshall, I’m trying to wrap my head around your current fermentation schedule. The one listed at the top of the page in table form is quite different than those in the comments section that you say you currently do. Can you please clarify your current schedule? I’m really interested in the timing of the dry hop. Thanks!

    • Yeah apologies for the confusing progression. I’m trying to simplify the process from it’s original iterations and so far the results are coming out great. I’m cooling more now after the WP down to about 70° and pitching all 3 yeasts. Then letting the beer run it’s course until fermentation starts to slow (usually about 20% fermentation left by gravity numbers taking samples). Then I dry hop only once. I’m trying to keep the amount of times the fermenter is open to only 1 to prevent any oxidation. From there I use co2 pressure into the fermenter for all my gravity checks and closed transfer into kegs.

      • Tld6008 says:

        Marshall, do you leave fermentation finish at 64* or ramp up at end to let yeast clean up in diacetyl rest? I’m that close!

  • Stuey Hazelden says:

    Hi guys, been trying a few Julius clones lately and this is next on my list. Few questions, ive scaled it down to 5 gallons. How many of you guys have brewed this and whats your overall impression.
    It just seems completely different than the recipe on home-brew talk thats I have previously brewed.
    Do you make a lil starter with the 3 yeasts or just rehydrate and pitch?

    • Hi Stuey, I hope someone finds this and replies to their experience. I think if you read through some of the comments you’ll see some people have had better than expected results.
      You’re very right that this recipe is unique. I’ve put a LOT of hard work into it! While I do have a few recipes with flaked oats and/or wheat in them, I typically prefer a cleaner grain bill like this one. Try it and see, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
      I hope you revisit us and post your experience!

  • Stuey Hazelden says:

    Plus ive never brewed a NEIPA before without any wheat or oats

    • Tld6008 says:

      I am a day or so away from kegging my first attempt (5 gal), tried to follow Marshalls recipe exactly. Will reply back after drinking the first pint.

      • Zbg says:

        I’m new to brewing and also trying to scale down to 5 gallons. How much yeast did you end up using in your brew?

      • Tld6008 says:

        Five days in keg so far, having never tried Julius before I don’t have anything to compare to but right now it has a little hop burn to it. Its definitely very drinkable but hope it smooths out some. Mouth feel is not as full as I was expecting. Prior to carbonating I noticed some of the flavors others have described… Bubble gum etc. Not so much now but will see in a week or so and will report back.

  • Zbg says:

    Hey Marshall, I’m excited to brew this next weekend. I’ve never had Julius so maybe this is crazy to suggest, but have you ever tried adding fruit to this recipe? On multiple occasions TH has posted photos on their social media where they have been slicing peaches and oranges. I don’t know a lot about the style, is adding fruit a thing in NEIPA’s?

    • So funny you ask, the only time I ever got to stand in line at Treehouse they sold me an IPA made with Texas grapefruits lol. I think IPAs with fruit can be awesome, but 99% of them rely too much on the fruit and don’t pay enough attention to the more important parts of the recipe like esters and malt. I say go for it!

    • Tld6008 says:

      11.5g SO4, .625g T58, .375g WBO6, basically half of what Marshall uses in an 11 Gal batch. Just checked my FG and it is at .009 will cold crash tomorrow.

  • BostonStu says:

    Marshall,
    Been reading your posts and they are amazing. thanks for providing some of the clearest and best instruction for brewing I’ve read. I’m only brewing with DME (up from LME, baby steps) in 5 gallon batches. My buddy and I have been brewing for a few years and always trying to get that Treehouse mouthfeel, but he and I are thinking in different directions when it comes to wondering we can do to get it. He is all hops, oatmeal and turbinado sugar, and he swears he’s been close a couple times, but I have been insisting it’s more the water first then the yeast, so when I read your posts I connected. However I may need to change my direction slightly. Not sure what to do to match your grainbill as I’m only using DME, but any recommendations you might have would surely be appreciated. Even though I’m not all grain ready yet, I will continue to read and learn. Much thanks in advance.

    • Hey congrats on taking the plunge. It’s addicting for sure. My simplest opinion on this is you won’t be able to get close with DME or LME because different grains can have a large impact on flavor and even mouthfeel when compared to a highly processed ingredient like male extract.
      You can brew some pretty awesome beers with DME though. Try a hefe with passionfruit puree and lemons. You’ll be AMAZED at how close to a high quality IPA it tastes lol.

  • Mike says:

    Hi Marshall,

    Really excited to try this new recipe. I have a couple of questions as a semi-newbie:

    1. Your IBUs state 63.1 IBUs, but my BeerSmith calcs this, with your AA units as the following (not counting DH)
    — Warrior @ 60 min = 24.8
    — Apollo @ 20 min = 19.9
    — Citra @ 15 min = 18.8
    — Apollo @ 10 min = 15.1
    This comes out to 78.6 IBUs. If I remove either the 10 or 15 minute additions I get to around the 63.1. Should I still be adding all the additions that I see on the current recipe, or is this just a discrepancy between BeerSmith and your calcs?

    2. You are dry hopping during active fermentation at day 4, correct? And, if so, you let that that sit in the fermenter for 6 days (or until FG has been reached) then keg and carb?

    3. You also mention not using a mesh bag to dry hop. I have a stainless cylinder that I’ve used to dry hop in the keg before. You recommend using something like that instead of the mesh bag?

    4. Do you serve directly after carbonation levels have been reached (grain to glass in ~10 days), or do you condition in the keg before starting to pour?

    Thanks for all of the info!

  • Jerry Nazario says:

    Marshall,

    Im curious as to how you are measuring/blending your yeast. Looking to brew this recipe asap.

    Thanks,
    Jerry

  • Greg says:

    Love this forum read through it twice!! and can’t wait to try this recipe. Please explain the yeast pitching. Is all the yeast pitched all at once or.on different days. And the temp you pitch at thanks for.posting look forward to the green and haze discussions

  • Matt Powell says:

    GREAT work, I’ll be brewing this next weekend! Can I drop an idea on you? Ever had King Julius? 🙂

  • Stephen says:

    I’m fairly new to homebrewing and have brewed Weldwerks Juicy Bits clone and got it where I like it. I got into homebrewing specifically to have NEIPAs since we can’t buy them easily.

    I brewed a 5 gallon version of this recipe, but have never tied the real thing. I live in Magnolia. I would love your feedback on how close I am. It honestly seems a little off even though its only half carbed up. My terrible explanation would be hop forward, then heavy esters, soft, then kinda weak finish.

    • Hey cool man, glad you were able to try it. I started brewing them for the same reason!
      I’d be totally down to try your beer man. Let me know when and where!

      • Stephen says:

        You had any luck bottling these from a keg? I went straight to kegging and have never bottled. If I could bottle a few, I’ll bring you one.

        • Yeah. I bottled my last brew off the keg and sent it to the National Homebrew Comp.
          I’ve always had great luck bottling off the keg with a bottling gun. If you use the picnic tap the beer stales within a day or so.

  • Mike says:

    Hey Marshall! Going to keg my first try on this batch in a few days. Will tell you how it turns out. I split the batch into two 5 gallon batches because I didn’t have enough S-04. I pitched with 1318 on the other batch. I’m not sure it would give the flavor profile I’m looking for, but I think the 1318 got a bit astringent at the high pitch temp. Once fermentation started to kick in my fermenters got to about 75F – no bueno. The S-04 seemed to handle it ok. The 1318 I don’t think so much. DH’d today so we’ll see what happens, but I don’t have high hopes for half of this batch.
    1. When you pitch do you pitch at around 68 and let it climb during fermentation, or to you actually pitch at 72F?
    2. I too usually have mash efficiency of about 93 – 94%. You mentioned you leave out the dextrose?
    3. You also mentioned you don’t rehydrate before pitching. Do you just sprinkle and leave the oxygenation to mother nature?

    Looking forward to my second batch!

    • Awesome stuff man. I never had any good luck with 1318 and beers like this. 1318 was best when we mixed it with 1098.
      To answer your questions,
      I do pitch at a higher temp and let the initial fermentation freefall into the low 60’s.
      Yes I leave out dextrose because like you, my efficiency is typically higher than others I know so I don’t actually need to dextrose for anything.
      I don’t rehydrate dry yeast and I don’t aerate either because dry yeast already contains the necessary sterol reserves to maximize growth and replication.
      Hope that helps!

  • bigjuicyvan says:

    I just downloaded the BeerSmith App and cannot find this recipe in there. Anyone here know on what platform I can find the BeerSmith version of this recipe? Thanks.

    • The recipe is only here. This is version 7 of this beer. If someone posted V1 in the cloud then they would all be brewing a beer way less accurate than this one. BeerSmith is used to re-create the recipe. I do not want my version of the recipe in the BeerSmith cloud because I’ve worked very hard to build this recipe. I would also hope that any comments here can help us all achieve a better beer in the long run. If you take this recipe from all of us that are commenting on it, and post it somewhere else, then the growth of that recipe stops. I know this beer isn’t a perfect replication, but with all of you helping the collective group…we will always be drawing closer.

      • bigjuicyvan says:

        Okay sweet thanks. I thought I read an earlier comment that you were having technical issues on this site and the updated version was on BeerSmith. Gonna give this recipe a
        go in a couple days and have plenty of Julius cans to compare.

  • Alex Hubert says:

    Marshall how are you maintaining 108 degrees during the 30 min whirlpool? I live in buffalo and the weather Is anlittle on the colder side so my temp will drop a good amount during 30 mins. I was curious if you do anything to keep a steady 108?

    • Hey great question. I’m in Texas so we don’t have the same issues with heat loss like you would up there.
      I did however just recently upgrade to an insulated mash tun/recirc setup so we’ll be using a true whirlpool from now on. I’m sure you could use your burner to adjust the temp, but I wouldn’t really worry about it. For the sake of homebrew I doubt any of us can taste the difference from a real 108º by 30 minute WP and one that started at 120º and fell 25º along the way.

  • Alex Hubert says:

    Thanks for the info. I might try to use my sous vide to maintain 108 for the half hour whirlpool.

    • Tld6008 says:

      You could wrap or cover the BK with blankets or towels to reduce heat loss for 30 min. Marshall earlier stated that the goal was to WP below 110deg not necessarily maintaining 108. I would minimize adding anything to the wort on the cold side to avoid contamination.

    • I’ve heard of people doing this!

  • Alex Hubert says:

    That’s a good idea, just make a jacket out of the reflectix insulation and just use it for the whirlpool. It wouldn’t cost much and will probably be good enough to hold the heat for 30 min.

  • BigSexy says:

    Very cool. After having my first can of Julius a few weeks back, I found this recipe. Three of us from Orange County Hoppers homebrew club in Pine Island NY will be making this for Big Brew Day this year at Mistucky Creek Homebrew Supply. Thanks Marshall!

  • Max says:

    Gonna brew this recipe next weekend but I’ll use Omega DIPA yeast instead. I’ve been struggling with my last brew of NEIPA with 6oz at 180F and 6.5oz of dryhop with a good hop burn for 3-4 weeks in the keg (cold crash under co2, dry hop under co2, no oxygen transfer) with 1318 yeast… The aroma is great but I need more flavor. Gonna try your 20-15-10 min addition with a whirlpool at 102F. Man, it’s been a while since I did some boil addition! It’s like nobody is doing this anymore in NEIPA! I’v always had good aroma with all my NEIPA but I am lacking in term of fruity smooth sweet flavor. I hope the small boil addition and 102F whirlpool will fix this! I will keep you updated. It will be my 9 straight NEIPA. Thanks for the recipe.

    • What hops were in that beer that gave you hop burn? I find that different hop combos can create a bad hop burn sometimes.
      A lot of people are quick to discount hot side hops, and the importance of grain selection. I’ve never been a fan of the theoretical zero IBU beers. They are just too unstable. That being said, I’ve had commercial beers that were single grain recipes that tasted like hop tea. I’ve had others that tasted like a malted mess. There are so many different ways to make beer!

      • Max says:

        11lb Golden Promise
        2 lbs Flaked Oats
        1lb Wheat Malt
        Ph 5.25

        no boil hops, no flame out hops

        30 min whirlpool @180-170
        3oz Azacca
        2oz Eureka!
        1.5oz Galaxy

        Dry hop at day 4 (1.030)
        3oz Azacca
        1.5oz Eureka!
        1.5oz Galaxy

        All fresh YCHOPS bags.

        The beer is very acid due to the hops burn I guess. Gonna try gelatine this saturday if it’s still hopburning.

  • Zbg says:

    Well just had my first bottle, and I couldn’t be happier. This was my first time every brewing and it couldn’t have gone smoother. I did a lot of research before hand and your instructions made everything clear and straightforward. I think my mash temp was slightly high and so it turned out a little sweet on the finish, but other than that it’s great. Lots of mango flavor and you can really taste the esters from the yeast combo. I had no choice but to bottle but so far no oxidation problems whatsoever. The color is a beautiful bright orange and with just the right amount of haze. Really impressed with the flavor and aroma you get from a big dry hop addition like this on a fresh beer. Thanks for the recipe and your help making my first brewing experience go so well!

  • R-jay Galbizo says:

    Just curious with the water profile.

    Sulfates – 150PPM
    Chloride – 100PPM
    Calcium – 20PPM
    Magnesium – 20PPM
    Estimated Mash pH – 5.2

    Would it be safe to assume that target Sodium and Bicarbonate would be 0? Awesome article by the way. Thanks Marshall

    • Thanks for visiting! Your sodium doesn’t really need to be zero. The taste threshold of sodium by itself (although very subjective) is said to be around 300ppm on average. Mixed with other salts it’s probably quite a bit lower, but you still have some room to play.
      I do however shoot for calcium as low as possible…like 20ppm to keep the residual and actual hardness low.

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